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Post by internazionale on Feb 24, 2008 0:40:11 GMT
Hello, newbie here.
The reason I've found you folk is because I've been a vegan for 5 months now and have had very few problems and am fairly happy with my diet. However, I was having a conversation turned debate with a Spanish friend of mine yesterday whose parents run a dairy farm. She was questioning why I'm a vegan and therefore why I don't drink milk, eat cheese etc. After explaining the obvious ethical reasons she explained to me how her parents cattle are free to roam wherever they like in an expansive field with lots of different types of grass to munch on and when they are milked they are only done so to half the normal standard so that they are in no pain and don't get infections. The cows live their full lives and are only eaten or sold for meat after a natural death.
She asked me would I drink one of these cows' milk and/or eat it after it'd died and I couldn't think of any reason why not?
Can you?
I'm not saying that I'm about to revert back to before I turned vegan by any means, but do you know of any reason why not to consume produce of "ethical farms" like these? Surely it's better that the cows live their lives like this than in a more traditional farm?
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Post by veggiesosage on Feb 24, 2008 1:59:14 GMT
Presuming you're not spam...
I would first challenge your friend's take on the ethical treatment of animals.
I have to say that Spain is not renowned for its compassion towards animals. I'd ask your friend what happens to the male calves for a start.
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Matt
Newbie
Posts: 22
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Post by Matt on Feb 24, 2008 9:38:15 GMT
I just typed a huge answer then realised "veggiesosage" said it much better with far less words!
The fate of the male calves would be a big issue for me.
I'm suprised your friend says the diary cows are sold for meat "after a natural death" - I would've thought it's costly to determine what constitues a natural death (as opposed to disease) and whether the meat would be considered fit for human consumption - not to mention why anyone would want to eat meat from a 20-odd year old cow (I have no idea how long cows should live for!) compared to presumably more tender meat of beef cattle slaughtered much younger.
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Post by wobblymoo on Feb 24, 2008 9:39:27 GMT
So their farm is so ethical that they allow the calves to feed naturally from their mothers? Cows milk is meant for baby cows, so what ever way a farmer (who only keeps cows to make money from) dresses it up, the truth is if they really cared about their welfare they wouldn't farm them. Does your friend also farm organically, or are the cows subjected to hormones and unnecessary antibiotics? I think their reasoning is very flawed Denise
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Post by sluggie on Feb 24, 2008 16:01:01 GMT
Their cows are not free. They are slaves. What right do we have to enslave other creatures? p.s. welcome to Everything Vegan.
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Post by Pob on Feb 25, 2008 11:14:55 GMT
Aside from the stealing milk from calves, and killing male calves, I very much doubt the cows are left to die of old age, and even more that anyone would want to eat such a cow.
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moon
Vegan Munchkin
Posts: 62
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Post by moon on Feb 25, 2008 11:24:34 GMT
to make money from their dairy farm they need to be taking many litres of milk from the cows,it would be costing them a lot more money to keep more cows to only 'milk' the cows to half the recomended standards! nobody is going to do that,after all,money is what they want!!!!
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Post by internazionale on Feb 26, 2008 21:38:45 GMT
Thanks for your messages. Very sensible reasoning and some of them have reassurred me somewhat :-D
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Post by charlielikesfolk on Feb 28, 2008 19:50:26 GMT
also, it's full of puss & blood.
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