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honey
Mar 4, 2006 13:43:08 GMT
Post by bobbywomble on Mar 4, 2006 13:43:08 GMT
right then iknow im going to get shot down in flames but here goes anyway honey is it really a bad thing to eat honey beacuse bees make it?? i can understand not drinking milk or dairy stuff cheese etc because god knows you dont have to be a rocket scientist to understand what dairy cows go through but bees make honey anyway if you was to kidnap a bee and stick it in your bee hive it would make honey quite happly all day long you cant make battery bees (can you?) and you dont need to milk or touch the bee to get to the honey it something the animal leaves behind kinda like a bee size cow pat lol so if the bee dont want it cant we.. kinda ..well..have it ? also why do bees make honey in the first place it seems pointless? im not saying its wrong or anything to not eat honey i was just wondering why vegans dont
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honey
Mar 4, 2006 15:59:58 GMT
Post by vuycha on Mar 4, 2006 15:59:58 GMT
...so if the bea dont want it cant we.. kinda ..well..have it ? also why do beas make honey in the first place it seems pointless? bees make honey for food, humans steal it and replace it with less nutritious mix of sugar and water. vegans dont eat honey because its stealing. in nature, nothing happens without the reason or purpose. nobody asks bees if the ''want'' their honey and wax when taking it. similar thing is with milk. cows don't have milk without the calf. so cows are inseminated, give birth to calf and start to produce milk to feed it. calf is then removed and slaughtered for meat or feeded with cheaper substitutes. same thing with all milking animals.
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 12:48:48 GMT
Post by Tiggerwoos on Mar 5, 2006 12:48:48 GMT
The main issue I have with honey is that the way its collected and "manhandled" is so rough and done with no care or consideration that they end up killing a large ammount of the bees in the process.
I supposed it to them is like coming home and finding your house had been broken into.
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 13:06:22 GMT
Post by astrocat on Mar 5, 2006 13:06:22 GMT
1/4 of an ounce of honey represents a bee's entire working life, which for the pollen-collecting worker-bees is an extremely dangerous working life and definitely the least favourite type of work for honey-bees to do. As with humans, they show preferences for the type of work which they most want to do - collecting honey is tiring and dangerous so it's an undesirable task. After that amount of honey-'production' (involving around 400 lengthy pollen-collecting trips) the bee's wings would wear out completely and she would be unable to fly, or indeed live, any longer. Considering this, then bees would have to be masochistic and suicidal in huge numbers, if they were to produce more honey than they would need themselves in a situation of emergency. Bees go to great effort to store up honey to see them through the winter or other times of food shortage, and as food for their young.... they produce tiny quantities of honey, risking their health and lives while doing so, and it's sickening to think of how much abuse and exploitation one jar, or even one spoon, full of honey represents..... Which is why vegans would not wish to eat honey. There is a very informative, and rather good, Animal Voices radio-show which features an interview with a guy called Elliot Gang, who discusses and explains a great deal about the immense exploitation & eco-system imbalancing which production and collection of honey (bot on an industrial and smaller scale) is dependant upon, and which is actively perpetuates and worsens. Please feel free to download the radio-show using the following link - hebb.cis.uoguelph.ca/~nharvey/animalvoices/elliot_gang (just over 3 Mb) The radio-show is about 40 minutes long, but as with many Animal Voices shows i found that the time passed quickly as it was easy to listen to, as well as interesting.
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 13:18:40 GMT
Post by astrocat on Mar 5, 2006 13:18:40 GMT
(^?^) Why does this forum censor s-p-o-o-n and change it to say 'sthingy' ?
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 13:26:49 GMT
Post by Tiggerwoos on Mar 5, 2006 13:26:49 GMT
(^?^) Why does this forum censor s-p-o-o-n and change it to say 'sthingy' ? Hi astro, thanks for joining At the moment, this forum seems to have a prob with the word s p o o n as another member discovered last week when I thought was a cute way of saying s p o o n! I have emailed the people about it as this seems to be the only word that this forum has probs with (hopefully anyway and am waiting for a reply. Sorry about that. Meanwhile if you or anyone else notices any other words, please let me know so I can pester the proboards people into fixing it! ;D Thanks Clare
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 13:38:27 GMT
Post by astrocat on Mar 5, 2006 13:38:27 GMT
it's nice to be here, thanks for the happy welcome. The mind boggles - why s-p-o-o-n we have to wonder ? For interest purposes, three other forums where I used to post had a few issues with perfectly innocent words, so I'm going to test them out here to see whether the proboard software censor-filter has problems with them. (1) pussycat - as in "I am a happy pussycat " (got censored to 'girlthingycat' (O.O) ) (2) snigger - as in, 'How amusing, I do chuckle and snigger" (got censored to 'sblackperson') (3) suck - as in "it is not natural for humans to suck on cows' breasts" (simply was starred out) it's no problem, but I was really baffled for a minute there, thinking "what the heck is a sthingy of honey ? I'm sure that I didn;t write that", and then it occured to me that it must have been a censor-filter at play )
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 13:39:45 GMT
Post by astrocat on Mar 5, 2006 13:39:45 GMT
aha ! So, this forum doesn;t like me being a p-u-s-s-y-c-a-t and won;t tolerate people happily s-n-i-g-g-e-r-i-n-g so now we all know for future reference !
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honey
Mar 5, 2006 13:45:03 GMT
Post by Tiggerwoos on Mar 5, 2006 13:45:03 GMT
Yay!
Thanks Astro
Was trying to guess the cat word!
Think I've fixed it....... am gonna try now and see if it works!
spoon
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Fauxmage
EV Friend
I eat food.
Posts: 186
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honey
Mar 7, 2006 8:30:57 GMT
Post by Fauxmage on Mar 7, 2006 8:30:57 GMT
"Spooning" is a very old-fashioned euphemism for sexual activities. Maybe that's why someone decided to censor it???
As to not eating honey, it is important for vegans to show that humans can be healthy without having to make use of any animal "product". It may not seem to an outsider that using honey is as abusive as using milk or flesh, but as others have said, using honey is stealing food from the bees, and it is not essential to human survival, so why do it?
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honey
Mar 7, 2006 14:02:23 GMT
Post by bobbywomble on Mar 7, 2006 14:02:23 GMT
have you noticed that astrocats forum doesnt like the word "dont" it appears as "don;t" weird cool looking forum though
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honey
Aug 6, 2006 0:42:17 GMT
Post by paul on Aug 6, 2006 0:42:17 GMT
poor bees, nasty man. ;D
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honey
Aug 7, 2006 11:11:12 GMT
Post by muffin on Aug 7, 2006 11:11:12 GMT
Taken from the vegan society website...
Bees are manipulated worldwide to produce many products for human use: honey, beeswax, propolis, bee pollen, royal jelly and venom. They are intelligent insects with a complex communication system.
Because bees are seen flying free, they are also often considered free of the usual cruelties of the animal farming industry. However bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter.
Queen for a Year or Two Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year.
Bees Crushed When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees' space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!).
Swarming is the natural way for reproduction, increase and survival of the species, at least in the wild. However, beekeepers are constantly trying to prevent this natural phenomenon and will use artificial pheromones, wing clipping and cage queens to keep their colony under control.
Artificial Feed Beekeepers feed artificial pollen substitutes and white sugar syrup to colonies, often to replace the honey that has been removed. If these practices are carried out over long periods of time they lower hive productivity and lifespan. Colonies fed on their natural food - honey and pollen - result in larger emerging bees and more vigorous bees.
Pesticides Beekeepers have become dependent on the use of synthetic pesticides and antibiotics to combat pests, and this has led to problems of toxicological hazards to beekeepers and bees, and risks of honey contamination.
Bees Transported Bees are bought and sold worldwide. Transportation means bees may suffer stress, suffocation, overheating or cold. Many die entombed in their packaged coffins. Exotic bees are transported to strange countries and causing problems in the natural environment by spreading disease. They are subsequently treated as feral and nests are destroyed by pouring petrol in hives or bees killed by spraying with liquid soap.
Moneymaking In a bid to improve the economics of honey production in South America in the 1950s the government ordered research into the use of the African honeybee. These bees are the most prolific honey producers in the world. Unfortunately, they are also extremely aggressive. All the native bees of South America were stingless but only three species made honey and certainly not in large quantities. Unfortunately, the African honeybees escaped. Thousands of hives of Africanised bees are now destroyed each year in the USA because they have been breeding with and destroying the more docile European honeybees, and they have stung and killed over 600 people.
Pollination In many countries bees' services are bought for pollination purposes resulting in the bees (and their hives) being transported hundreds or thousands of miles. The food industry is now looking to artificially managed honeybees to provide to pollinate crops because wild bees and other insects (who would naturally pollinate crops) have been and are being destroyed by housing development, industrial pollution, pesticide poisoning, intensive farming practices, destruction of hedgerows, etc. The use of honeybees for pollination is now big business especially in places like New Zealand and America. However, even in the UK commercial beekeepers move hives (to find sources of nectar for honey production, and for pollination). Pollination fees are a very important component of the commercial beekeepers income. Commercially reared bumblebee colonies are now also extensively used to pollinate some glasshouse crops, particularly tomatoes.
Vivisection Bees are also victims of vivisection and a vast number of experiments are carried out worldwide on these creatures. Unfortunately their generally quiet nature makes the honeybee easily manipulated and it has been claimed that they make an ideal laboratory animal. Many experiments are conducted for research and development into colonies that will produce more honey and thus make more money. In Japan they have irradiated bees to make their sting ineffective in an effort to achieve a 'stingless' bee for easier handling and in Australia trials are being undertaken on a protein in bee venom to treat cancer.
Health Risk Honey and other bee products are widely used in folk medicine. However, people with asthma or allergies have been strongly recommended not to take honey or royal jelly after several deaths and severe illnesses. Honey is also not suitable for children under twelve months of age because of the risk of botulism. Bees have been seen drinking from sewage plants and have been known to collect tar, adhesives and paint instead of propolis. Moreover, a nutritional comparison shows that demerara sugar is higher in minerals, such as potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, iron, copper and chlorine. The somewhat dubious health benefits of bee products do not warrant the use and abuse of honeybees. There are many other non-animal alternative medicines available.
Basic Bee Info The most popular bee for honey production is the European Apis mellifera. In common with all insects it has a brain and several smaller ganglia (sub-brains) running through its body. In proportion to its size, the brain of the bee is very large. The ganglia have nerve fibres connecting them with the sensory endings on the outer layer of the insect. Other fibres carry nervous impulses from the ganglia to the muscles and internal organs, regulating their action.
On average a colony comprises 42,000-60,000 bees and can survive up to 20 years. However, the lifespan of individual bees is very short. Within the hive there are three types of bee: the worker, the drone and the queen. The worker carries out most types of jobs necessary to keep the colony ticking over including cleaning, feeding larvae, manipulating the wax, processing the honey and foraging or defending the colony. Foraging honeybees communicate food sources to fellow foragers by means of the famous "waggle dance" which involves an intricate series of circles and movements. After the first 20 days or so of its life it acts as a forager, or flying bee, collecting nectar and pollen. The life of the worker lasts about 30 to 35 days. As far as is known the drone's only function is to mate with the queen bee, after which it dies. Under wild conditions the queen lives for five years or so. She has two main functions in life: to mate and lay eggs. She is a very important part of the colony because she passes on her characteristics and controls its size by the number of eggs she produces.
Bee Statistics The honeybee will fly about 800km in her working life and produce just half a teaspoon of honey. A queen may produce half a million eggs in her natural lifespan. However, she will only be allowed to live 2 years in the commercial world producing 150,000 eggs annually during this time. In calm conditions the foraging bee will travel at 24 km per hour and up to 40 km for short periods of time and work for 7 - 10 hours a day.
Some 300,000 tonnes of honey are traded internationally every year, and about four times this much is actually produced. The five major honey producers in the world are the former USSR, China, USA, Mexico, and Turkey. [2]
Of the honey consumed in the UK each year, most of it (just over 2 million tonnes) is imported from New Zealand. There are around 40,000 beekeepers in the UK but probably only 320 are semi-commercial or commercial enterprises.
Bee Products Honey Pre-digested food made by bees from nectar. The bees collect the nectar from flowers and store it in their primary or honey stomach. Here it is partially digested and converted into the substance we call honey. It is a food source of the bee and is stored in the hive for the lean winter months. The metabolism of honey by the bee creates heat, which maintains the temperature of the hive at 17-34 degrees C. The colony requires approximately 200 lbs of honey a year to survive. It is used by humans as a food, as a medicine and in cosmetics and toiletries.
Beeswax Secreted from eight small wax glands underneath the abdomen of the bee. The soft wax pours into eight pockets beneath the glands where it solidifies. It is then removed and passed to the mouth where it is worked into hexagonal cells called combs, which are used to form the basic structure of the hive. It is used in cosmetics, toiletries, pharmaceuticals, polishes and candles.
Propolis A resinous substance gathered by bees from trees. It is used to fill holes, and varnish and strengthen the hive. Bees also use it as a natural antibiotic, antiviral and antifungal agent. It is gathered by humans by either scraping it off the hive or collecting it on specially made frames. It is used as a medicine and food supplement. It is sometimes called 'bee glue'.
Bee Pollen Collected from flowers and brought back to the hive as a load on the hind legs. It is a food source for the bee and is stored in the hive. A colony requires approximately 60lbs of pollen per year to survive. The collection of pollen involves fitting special traps to the hive. These scrape it off and are just big enough to allow the bee through. Bee pollen is used as a food supplement.
Royal Jelly This creamy-white sticky fluid is a blend of two secretions from the glands of the worker bees. It is the sole source of nourishment for the queen bee throughout her life. Since royal jelly enables the bee to become a queen, some people believe they can recapture their lost youth by eating it. China, where cost-saving techniques have been devised for gathering it, is a major exporter of royal jelly. Details of methods of collection are a closely guarded secret. It is sometimes called 'bee milk'.
Venom The sting of the bee. Its collection involves the stretching of an electrically-charged membrane in front of the hive. When the bees fly into it they receive an electric shock and sting the membrane, thus depositing the venom. Venom is prized by some for its supposed medicinal qualities.
Phew, there ;D
PS - you can't say the word K-o-r-n-e-r .. in its place you get Professor Snapeer
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honey
Sept 14, 2006 7:45:51 GMT
Post by moriarty on Sept 14, 2006 7:45:51 GMT
I read on a raw site once that they use honey because it had never actually been 'part' of the bees body; it is simply collected, processed and expelled. Hence no bee was suffering as part of itsnatural lifestyle. Ugh, the more I read what I have written there, the viler it sounds
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honey
Apr 8, 2008 5:38:26 GMT
Post by easyemu15 on Apr 8, 2008 5:38:26 GMT
I dunno. I mean people give the bees those hives in the first place. I don't mind if they don't take all the honey & treat the bees gently.
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